I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice.
With the LLC thing, I was once told that you must have some partners or employees to be considered a proper legal shield. I recommend consulting with a lawyer and to be very open about the (very real) problems you’re trying to solve. Godspeed, OP.
Thanks for sharing my meme!
Of course!
I would have attributed it if I remembered it was yours :)
Your meme?
steals
My meme.
Seize the memes of production!
Any reason you’re thinking of? Writing off server costs?
Mostly for an additional degree or 2 of separation from me and maybe some liability protections. The US treats business better than humans after all lol any tax benefits would be a plus if it happens though
i wouldn’t join any instance based in the US fwiw
I could still run it on servers outside of the US, and I might if I can find something that beats my current provider
Cloud act says doesnt matter
Actually, having an LLC appears to increase my ability to defend against it
the Act provides a mechanism for a communications provider to challenge the order if disclosing the data would risk violating foreign law. Under the CLOUD Act, the legal protection of an individual’s rights depends on the objection by a provider. There is no direct mechanism for individuals to challenge an order under the CLOUD Act. A court will consider a provider’s challenge of an order for disclosure of data data and review the request under a multi-factor “comity” analysis to assess foreign and other interests at stake. However, U.S. court can require production of that data despite the objection, even where the laws of another nation would be violated.
https://epic.org/the-cloud-act/
By running it under an LLC I actually have a lawful mechanism to pull, not fool proof or airtight obviously, but it’s something I wouldn’t have without the LLC
Incorrect. You would have no problem whatsoever if you had no company and just hosted in europe.
Companies under the cloud act only have the ability to disagree if the country in question has an agreement with the us which currently only great britain has.
You would have no problem whatsoever if you had no company and just hosted in europe.
As an individual it would be so much worse, what are you talking about? They’re not going to go “Oh you’re an individual hosting in the EU, guess there’s nothing we can do”
Companies under the cloud act only have the ability to disagree if the country in question has an agreement with the us which currently only great britain has.
That’s only applicable for the other way, e.g. Britain (as an example) requesting data from a US provider. There are 2 parts to the act, part 1 is for the SCA to be amended so that the US can compel US companies to turn over data stored overseas and part 2 authorizes the entering of these agreements with foreign governments so when those governments wants data from a US company for their citizens they can fast track it.
The mechanism is always available if it’s the US wanting the data from a US company with overseas servers
It’s all right there in my link
are you physically based in the us? because that could be an issue, too, if you were ever compelled to provide information. i’d just lay off for now and just donate to the other instances if i were you. that said, i’m just an asshole on the internet and my opinion is only worth what you see.
If the us govt really wanted some user info, with all that 5 eyes and CIA, NSA whatnot, they would just find it themselves
you’re talking about FVEY, and four of those eyes are all looking in one direction while Trump alone looks away. yeah, you’re right. there’s nothing about me that i dont’t think the us govt already knows about. but your message almost sounds like i shouldn’t care while the rest of the things happening in the world are all telling me that i should. i question your motivations.
You can’t be compelled to give information. We have the fifth amendment.
we
havehad the fifth amendment.FTFY. Laws are only worth the paper they’re written on and the willingness of the executive to actually execute them. Here in the US, the latter is now missing, and the former isn’t for sale (yet, give them time to put it on the Russian black market)
That explicitly do not apply to companies.
Also, it’s evident that no, you aren’t really protected by it. That’s why a lot of countries forbid sending personal information into the US. You have secret courts on the Executive branch that can force you to disclose anything to them and keep that fact secret.
Whoever wants to compel you for information will add financial/mental/physical pressure until you no longer wish to remain silent. That’s true in democratic governments, stories/history tells us it’s worse in autocratic ones.
You have the right to remain silent… the question is whether you can with external pressure.
A classic.
Well, that’s a problem in every country then, that’s not specific to America.
It’s in the name: liability. If the instance gets sued, only the LLC’s assets can be claimed.
There may be other reasons that OP has in mind, but that’s the most obvious benefit I see.
For real tho anyone know a good guide to hosting an instance?
You have to understand the tech because lemmy is not end user ready. The best “guide” is the one on lemmy github.
are you guys getting paid?
Yes, I get paid a very respectable number of memes for my monthly salary.
i wish I got paid in memes.
Lol I wish
don’t worry - our soros checks are in the mail
If you’re not trying to make money, wouldn’t it make more sense to start a non-profit foundation?
That’s more complicated and more costly, I’m still researching it, but so far from my current understanding when the time comes I should be able to either convert or “transfer” the LLC to a non-profit corporation later
I’ve had this discussion on a recent project. It is much more hassle than it is worth. Just host the server outside of that fascist hellhole and youre good.
Good luck with the IRS.
Idk how it is with the IRS but in my country you could easily do it unless they can show you’re trying to avoid taxes on non-business expenses. Putting in your post-tax income is already a sign you’re likely not trying to game the system. Setting up some potential income stream would be even better. Doesn’t have to turn a profit but you might be able to show you’re TRYING to be profitable. Then you could use company income on it.
If your lemmy instance is actually community outreach for some other part of your business, you could run it from pretax income and get reimbursed VAT without having to show it as an attempt at making money.
You can set up an LLC in Estonia without ever visiting the country for under 300 euros. It’s pretty nifty. But if you try to do any hardcore tax optimization, they will catch you. You can optimize away small things, but overall if you’re making a bunch of money and only have lots of business expenses and pay no salary, they’ll start investigating you.
It actually shouldn’t be all that problematic, money I put into its business account, from say my paycheck, is not seen as revenue. As long as the maths maths (e.g. I put 1000$ into it for the year from my paycheck, spent 800$ in infrastructure and still have 200$ in the account = all good (hopefully))
You will need to document those Owner / Capital Contributions very clearly so if an audit happens you can prove how that money got into the LLCs account.
Speaking of that account; your Contribution may not be considered Revenue but any interest earned from it sitting in a bank account almost certainly will be and unless you record offsetting expenses then you suddenly have profit…which is subject to taxation.
If that isn’t enough then there’s State, County, and sometimes even local regulations to consider. For instance you lived in Denver, Colorado you may be on the hook for “Occupational Privilege Tax” which is $4 per month per employee. Is the owner of a single member LLC considered an “employee”? I dunno but you should know that this stuff exists and find out before it bites your ass off.
For the most part LLCs are cheap and easy, right up until somebody from the Government decides to poke their nose in, which is how so many people get in trouble with them.
So Good Luck with this and let me know when your instance goes live. :)
Don’t you have to turn a profit like 1 out of 5 years?
Not necessarily. You just need to demonstrate that you are running it like a for-profit company would, and with profit seeking motive.
Instead of a for-profit LLC, consider filing the business as a 501c charity.
Actually, neither is true, an LLC can in fact be run as a non-profit, what you’re thinking of is going public. Then yea, you gotta start making line go up (or promise line will go up really soon) because once you go public then you have shareholders and a board to answer to
A plain private LLC though you can do what ever you want to with it (within legal reason ofc)
It’s even theoretically possible to get 501©3 status on an LLC (though it’s rather tedious and not guaranteed, so its almost always is spun off to another entity for that)
You may want to read through this as well as some case law on the subject before jumping to conclusions.
But that doesn’t say anything about LLCs needing to be run with intent for profit, it’s just a list of factors the IRS put out to help people determine if what they’re doing is considered an actual business or just a hobby. And not a single one said “opening an LLC”.
Lots of people open LLCs for lots of reasons other than a business to make profit, because it’s a cheap and easy way to get some liability protections
An LLC is a business. There’s no other way around it. The IRS will revoke your LLC if you are not running it as a business or under protected non-profit clauses.
Don’t take my word for it. Please consult with someone who has owned LLCs or even sole proprietorships for more than 5 years before charging ahead.
I’ve been running either an LLC or a sole proprietorship for 7 years, but I’m just random random internet person.
Also 1/3 of tax law are the actual words of any given law. The other 2/3 of tax law is executive interpretation/enforcement and case law from around the country.
There are some really interesting cases, even where tax lawyer firms get it wrong. In one instance a law firm tried to deduct their daily lunches as business meetings, and the tax court said no, even though it clearly states in the text of law that this is permissable. The judge basically said you can’t declare a daily lunch as a business meeting.
Other court documents can be found here:
Do the still exist in Trump’s America?
They will never go away for regular people, only the Rich.
