People to the left of Liberals aren’t Tankies, but Tankies whinge that the winner is not left of Liberal. They would probably also whinge about an NDP PM. The only outcome I can see them celebrating is conservative victory. Tankies are scum of the earth.
The discourse on Lemmy however is a tendency to use “tankie” as some kind of othering identity marker. If I, an NDP and QS supporter, raise my hand and say “excuse me but Carney is a right wing Liberal, and I’m not comfortable with how the Overton Window has shifted to the right in Canada”, there is a clear narrative that will lump me in with the Others, right? Who by virtue of being tankies are therefore traitorous to Canada and therefore, hello, here’s the old red scare trope of “fellow travellers”, “pinkos” and “useful idiots”. Let’s not pretend that’s not the case.
You’re right, demanding we expand NDP while throwing the election to conservatives does make you a traitor accomplice. And regardless of figure of speech, there is no virtue among tankies. If you want to move the overton window left then remove as many conservatives from office as possible, that is the only path forward.
Consequences matter. Maybe you are full of leftwing virtue but no one sane or intelligent cares.
Valuing your virtue over consequences makes you a threat to everyone, including yourself. You’ll sink the ship for your principles and drag everyone down with you. So yes, if it minimizes you or your group’s political influence it makes sense to call you a traitor.
Its what got my country Trump. I now feel a visceral internal rage when anyone tells me “Democrats and Republicans are the same.” Regardless of what their actual politics are. Because I know they did not vote, they let this shit happen so they wouldn’t “dirty their hands”. I hate them. I despise them.
Buddy, your political system is nothing like ours. We don’t have one all-or-nothing election. We have a Westminster system, we have a multiparty democracy, we have minority governments and the capacity for coalitions. Our supreme Court justices retire, our federalism is not broken like yours and we don’t have founding daddy issues that cripple us to blindly worshipping some 200 year old piece of paper.
Keep your rage your side of the border, your frame of reference does not translate to our system. Pipe down.
I mean the guy is a straight laced professor of economics who wrote his thesis on the advantage of competition. He’s not exactly a working class hero. However, it could have been way worse and anyone who can’t see that just needs to look at the US to find out what happens when you don’t vote for the lesser of two evils.
The implication that I believe you are missing is that all humans are to some degree evil, and that goes doubly so for the type of human that finds themselves working in the world of politics.
It’s tongue-in-cheek, and that was very well known when the phrase originally came out.
you don’t have to be an authcom to see that carney is to the right of trudeau; he canceled the carbon tax, the capital gains tax hike, and is in favor of building more oil pipelines
no matter who won, canada would shift to the right. all we could do is decide by how much.
(and either way, all 3 of them - trudeau, carney and poilievre - are neolibs who support the genocide in palestine)
i DO think it is fair to lament that the state of the world has anyone in a place where they must strategically vote for a fucking banker to protect you from something worse
And if the conservative had won they all would have suddenly become optimists “the bright side is that this will weaken the western empire and accelerated the revolution of the working class!”
I already see Canadian tankies complaining about how right-wing Carney is.
Ah, the enlightened centrist has bestowed the ultimate and correct opinion.
Anything to the left of the Liberals is “tankies” now?
People to the left of Liberals aren’t Tankies, but Tankies whinge that the winner is not left of Liberal. They would probably also whinge about an NDP PM. The only outcome I can see them celebrating is conservative victory. Tankies are scum of the earth.
The discourse on Lemmy however is a tendency to use “tankie” as some kind of othering identity marker. If I, an NDP and QS supporter, raise my hand and say “excuse me but Carney is a right wing Liberal, and I’m not comfortable with how the Overton Window has shifted to the right in Canada”, there is a clear narrative that will lump me in with the Others, right? Who by virtue of being tankies are therefore traitorous to Canada and therefore, hello, here’s the old red scare trope of “fellow travellers”, “pinkos” and “useful idiots”. Let’s not pretend that’s not the case.
You’re right, demanding we expand NDP while throwing the election to conservatives does make you a traitor accomplice. And regardless of figure of speech, there is no virtue among tankies. If you want to move the overton window left then remove as many conservatives from office as possible, that is the only path forward.
Nice imagination you got there. Do you have more things to imagine about what my political positions are, while calling me a fucking traitor?
Some people man.
Consequences matter. Maybe you are full of leftwing virtue but no one sane or intelligent cares.
Valuing your virtue over consequences makes you a threat to everyone, including yourself. You’ll sink the ship for your principles and drag everyone down with you. So yes, if it minimizes you or your group’s political influence it makes sense to call you a traitor.
Its what got my country Trump. I now feel a visceral internal rage when anyone tells me “Democrats and Republicans are the same.” Regardless of what their actual politics are. Because I know they did not vote, they let this shit happen so they wouldn’t “dirty their hands”. I hate them. I despise them.
Buddy, your political system is nothing like ours. We don’t have one all-or-nothing election. We have a Westminster system, we have a multiparty democracy, we have minority governments and the capacity for coalitions. Our supreme Court justices retire, our federalism is not broken like yours and we don’t have founding daddy issues that cripple us to blindly worshipping some 200 year old piece of paper.
Keep your rage your side of the border, your frame of reference does not translate to our system. Pipe down.
I mean the guy is a straight laced professor of economics who wrote his thesis on the advantage of competition. He’s not exactly a working class hero. However, it could have been way worse and anyone who can’t see that just needs to look at the US to find out what happens when you don’t vote for the lesser of two evils.
IMO anybody who promotes competition and antimonopoly is a working class hero.
“Competition” is not a working class interest. Solidarity is.
Yeah well Monopoly isn’t solidarity, it’s oppression, so fighting that is good in my book.
A liberal fights a monopoly by competition, so that no single capitalist gains more profits over the other capitalists.
A socialist fights a monopoly by socializing it and making it a utility that works to meet the needs of the population, eliminating the profit motive.
And the true enemy endorses monopoly, so I’m happy to call liberals my friends.
Supporting lesser of two evils just gets you more and more evil, and eventually you get to Trump.
The implication that I believe you are missing is that all humans are to some degree evil, and that goes doubly so for the type of human that finds themselves working in the world of politics.
It’s tongue-in-cheek, and that was very well known when the phrase originally came out.
The subtlety seems to have been lost over time.
you don’t have to be an authcom to see that carney is to the right of trudeau; he canceled the carbon tax, the capital gains tax hike, and is in favor of building more oil pipelines
no matter who won, canada would shift to the right. all we could do is decide by how much.
(and either way, all 3 of them - trudeau, carney and poilievre - are neolibs who support the genocide in palestine)
And if the conservative had won they all would have suddenly become optimists “the bright side is that this will weaken the western empire and accelerated the revolution of the working class!”